Talking Space

Episode1601: Taking Non-Traditional Space Companies and Artisans From Concept to Launchpad: A Conversation With Chantelle Baier of 4Space

Welcome to the First Talking Space of 2024!

The Intuitive Machines IM-1 mission is the second flight of NASA’s Commercial Lunar Payload Services (CLPS) missions. Its purpose is to have commercial entities be responsible for sending NASA science payloads and eventually cargo to the lunar surface to support human exploration of the Moon. NASA isn't the lead of the mission, but simply one customer of many. This new way of getting to the lunar surface opens a new door for not only researchers but also other non-traditional businesses who may never have thought of participating in spaceflight before to make their first bold steps into the space business.

Bolted to the side of the Intuitive Machines NOVA-C IM-1 lander set for its lunar voyage is sculpture called “Moon Phases” conceptualized and designed by artist Jeff Koons. Consisting of 125 small and unique lunar phase sculptures, each one dedicated to someone who contributed to humanity for good in some way. It’s bolted to the side of the spacecraft set to be the first sculpture on the lunar south pole. But it was a long road from concept to the launch pad.

Enter Chantelle Baier who founded 4Space in 2018 to take free thinkers, artisans, and non-traditional space companies, and help them take their talents and abilities to a higher level: above the Karman Line.

In this installment, we talk to Ms. Baier about the journey Koon’s sculpture took, how 4Space was able to help a non-traditional entity take that step into the final frontier, and what the company can do for others who want to embark on that journey. We also discuss what may be on the horizon for 4Space in the future.

Chantelle Baier has served on the boards of the Moon Village Association, the AIAA Technical Committee, Hewellet Packard’s Mars Home Planet Advisory Panel, Yuri’s Night Special Relations, and is a senior executive on the National Space Society’s Board of Directors where she serves at the organization’s Director and Creative Director. She also holds professional backgrounds in the areas of science, space, and fashion.

 

Host: Mark Ratterman

Panelist: Gene Mikulka

Guest: Chantelle Baier

Podcast Editor: Mark Ratterman

 

 

Episode 1515: What Do Aussies Think About Space?

First off, apologies are in order for our extended absence from your podcast-hungry ears. We try our best to record on a consistent basis, but sometimes there’s a perfect storm of Life Events getting in the way for the Talking Space team when it comes down to getting an episode in the can. We DID even record an episode with Gene and Larry that we could not air because Larry’s audio track for the recording was not usable due to, of all things, an intermittently malfunctioning microphone. Sometimes the Universe just plain conspires against us.

In the News Roundup:

 First: Be encouraged and inspired. Watch an interview with former astronaut Jose Hernandez on This Week in Space, as well as his new biopic, A Million Miles Away. Here’s a link to the trailer. His daughter interviews him here.

Next, we have an update on the Center for Biological Diversity, et al’s Starship lawsuit against the FAA, SpaceX, and a new defendant added recently: the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. Also, what’s happening now to qualify SpaceX for its IFT-3 launch license? We have all the latest.

Also, a final reminder: Send your name to Europa aboard the Europa Clipper spacecraft - check in at https://europa.nasa.gov/message-in-a-bottle/check-in/ or sign on at https://europa.nasa.gov/message-in-a-bottle/sign-on/ . The opportunity closes Dec. 31, 2023.

Finally: Want a picture of yourself on Mars? At JPL? In the Mars Rover Mission Control room? Check out the Mars Perseverance Photo Booth here.

Wrap-up and Impressions from ASCEND

As promised last time, Kat provides a wrap-up overview and her impressions from the ASCEND conference, including the probable extension of the commercial spaceflight regulatory “learning period” and news on lunar communications regulations.

What do Aussies Think About Space?

The Australian Centre for Space Governance (ACSG) has sponsored a study designed to measure Australian attitudes and opinions about space. We’re proud that Talking Space’s own Dr. Kat Robison Hasani helped design the study in her role as a Senior Research Fellow at ACSG. She brings us up to speed on the survey’s findings.

 

SpaceX 2023 Launch Count as of December 19, 2023: 92

SpaceX 2023 Projected Final Launch Count: 97 (almost made it to 100!)

 

More Website Woes

Yes, it’s true. Talking Space’s website – and email – are down again. And again, we’re “working the problem,” and will have things working again ASAP. The podcast itself has always been available wherever else you get your podcasts, as you know if you’re reading this.

Please be sure to let us know your thoughts on the topics we discuss. You can always reach us at mailbag@TalkingSpaceOnline.com.

 

Show recorded 12-26-2023.

 

Host: Mark Ratterman

Panelist(s): Larry Herrin, Dr. Kat Robison Hasani

Podcast Editor: Mark Ratterman

Episode 1514: Starship vs. the Fish People, MSR Woes and a Powerful Tale from ASCEND

There’s a lot going on this time around, as usual. First, in the news roundup:

• Starship: The Lawsuit pitting the Center for Biological Diversity against the FAA and SpaceX proceeded mostly as expected (with a notable exception). The FAA awaits the US Fish and Wildlife Service to complete their Biological Assessment portion for review of the Starship’s next launch license. Here’s the Wallops Spaceport site map about which Gene quoted Eric Roesch in our discussion. Harry Stranger first tweeted about the maps on X.
• LUCY Mission makes its first asteroid flyby on November 1st.
• India has announced an ambitious, multi-planetary expansion of its space program on a short, 20-year timeline.
• NASA picks three museums in which to display OSIRIS-REx asteroid Bennu samples. When can you go see them? Actually very soon!

Then, Mark discusses a brief history and laments the lessened art of spacecraft call signs and aircraft nose art. He also informs us that Commander Callie continues her mission in NASA’s newest issue of its graphic novel.

Next, Gene brings us up to speed on the wobbly future of the Mars Sample Return (MSR) mission in light of the findings of the recent Independent Review Board 2 report. The IRB2 report concluded, among other things, that there is “likely not enough funding available to accomplish any mission.” Say again, Houston?

Finally, Kat brings us an initial teaser report and interview from the recent ASCEND conference with Lindsay Kaldon, Project Manager with NASA’s Fission Surface Power Project, managed by NASA’s Glenn Research Çenter in Cleveland, OH. You want to survive long-term on the Moon or Mars, you gotta have a lot of reliable electrical power!

Thanks to all for the heads-up about issues with Talking Space’s website. It’s been down for a number of weeks now. We’re “working the problem,” and will have the site back up very soon. The podcast itself has always been available wherever else you get your podcasts, as you know if you’re reading this soon after it is published! UPDATE: The website has been restored as of the afternoon of November 7, 2023, and seems to be functioning normally.

Please be sure to let us know your thoughts on the topics we discuss. You can always reach us at mailbag@TalkingSpaceOnline.com .

Show recorded 10-27-2023.

Host: Sawyer Rosenstein

Panelist(s): Gene Mikulka, Mark Ratterman, Dr. Kat Robison and Larry Herrin

Podcast Editor: Larry Herrin

 

Episode 1513: What’s a WR? How does it Affect Starship’s Next Launch Date?

So much has happened so fast in the last couple of weeks related to SpaceX’s pursuit of Starship’s Flight 2 launch license. Look at all these goings-on:

• September 10, 2023: The list of 63 corrective actions specified in the Mishap Investigation Report are published;
• September 13, 2023: Acting FAA Administrator Polly Trottenberg comments to reporters that “We’re working well with them (SpaceX) and I think we’re optimistic sometime next month,” whatever that means.
• Trottenberg also mentions that SpaceX would also need a separate environmental approval from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS) before a launch. She didn’t say how long that might take.
• Late Friday afternoon on September 15, 2023: News from FAA that they were performing a Written Reevaluation (WR) of the 2022 Programmatic Environmental Assessment (PEA). The WR will evaluate all the new environmental data collected as a result of the April 20, 2023 initial test launch of Starship, and will include results of an Endangered Species Act (ESA) consultation with USFWS.
• September 18, 2023: USFWS clarifies a few things about its ESA Section 7 re-initiation of the biological consultation with the FAA in a statement to@NASASpaceflight.

To try and make sense of all this, Larry and Gene are pleased to welcome back Eric Roesch (@ESGHound), who by now should be familiar to regular Talking Space listeners. Eric is an environmental engineer by trade. He is an environmental permitting expert who has written extensively about permitting-related activities related to the activities of SpaceX.

Eric, Gene and Larry will take a deep dive to provide some clarity to all the above, as well as answers to questions like:

• Is there anything new in the environmental lawsuit against the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and SpaceX? Does the lawsuit have any bearing on this whole WR situation?
• Do any of the 63 corrective actions resulting from the now-closed Mishap Investigation address the lack of an Industrial Wastewater Permit for the water deluge system?
• How long will FAA take to confirm that SpaceX has satisfactorily completed all the corrective actions, including the environmental aspects?
• What is a Written Reevaluation (WR)?
• Why did the FAA decide to require a WR?
• How long will the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service take to perform their consultation with the FAA?
• What are the possible outcomes of the WR, and how long will they take to resolve? What is the most likely outcome?
• What is our “SWAG estimate” as to how long before we can get an idea of when Starship will fly again?

Be sure to let us know your thoughts on the topics we discuss. You can always reach us at mailbag@TalkingSpaceOnline.com .

Contact Eric and read his writings: website: blog.esghound.com; Substack: esghound.substack.com; X/Twitter: @ESGHound; Also: Mashable story about the Bloomberg FOIA story.

Show recorded 09-19-2023.

Host: Larry Herrin

Panelist(s): Gene Mikulka (Mark Ratterman, Sawyer Rosenstein and Dr. Kat Robison will return)

Podcast Editor: Larry Herrin

Episode 1512: Pretty Plasma Trail, But Not from Starship Anytime Soon?

This episode brings lots of Space news from around the globe, as well as from our own back yards. Literally. 

First off: both Sawyer and Mark witnessed the plasma trail from the latest Crew Dragon reentry from their own back yards. A photo that looks … kind of like what they saw (taken by NASA) … is shown here.

Next, we have plenty of news in the roundup, including:

• How LeoLabs worked with the European Space Agency (ESA) to support Aeolus satellite’s controlled reentry
• ULA's 98th launch for NRO and 157th launch with 100 percent mission success was SILENTBARKER/ NROL 107 on 10 Sept, 2023
• How and why the majority of NASA’s buildings are in need of serious maintenance – or demolition
• The ongoing New Horizons Mission saga
• Virgin Galactic flies a group of “Founder” astronauts in its fourth flight
• NASA’s Frank Rubio breaks the US space endurance record
• NASA and Axiom announce the Axiom 3 crew
• The GAO says NASA’s Space Launch System needs more cost transparency

Then, the team discusses the 36-page report of the NASA Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena (UAP) Independent Study Team. NASA formed this external, 16-member independent study team of experts in July 2022 to find a way we can use our open-source data and resources to help shed light on the nature of future UAP. The report is a summary of the proposed ways NASA can do that using mostly existing resources, as well as new, inexpensive crowdsourced methods to collect future UAP data in a scientifically rigorous manner. You can find a copy of the report here.

Finally, we can’t let an episode go by without an update to the goings-on in the world of SpaceX and Starship:

• First, no new developments as of our recording date were publicly documented since July 26, 2023 in the lawsuit brought by the Center for Biological Diversity, et al against the FAA and SpaceX.
• On September 10, 2023, an apparently redacted/rephrased list of 63 corrective actions was published by Elon Musk on X. None of these addressed the requirements of the Clean Water Act in terms of procuring an Industrial Wastewater Permit for the new deluge system.
• On September 13, 2023, acting FAA Administrator Polly Trottenberg told reporters on the sidelines of a conference that “We’re working well with them (SpaceX) and I think we’re optimistic sometime next month,” whatever that means.
• Trottenberg also mentioned that SpaceX would also need a separate environmental approval from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service before a launch. She didn’t say how long that might take.
• Late Friday afternoon on September 15, 2023, the day after this show was recorded, came news via emailed news release that the FAA was performing a Written Reevaluation (WR) of the 2022 Programmatic Environmental Assessment (PEA). The WR will evaluate all the new environmental data collected as a result of the April 20, 2023 initial test launch of Starship, and an Endangered Species Act consultation with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. This news could have a huge and potentially devastating effect on the timeline for the Flight 2 Starship launch. More details can be found here.  We’ll keep you informed as events unfold. 

Please be sure to let us know your thoughts on the topics we discuss. You can always reach us at mailbag@TalkingSpaceOnline.com .

 

Show recorded 09-14-2023.

 

Host: Sawyer Rosenstein

Panelist(s): Gene Mikulka, Mark Ratterman and Larry Herrin (Dr. Kat Robison will return)

Podcast Editor: Mark Ratterman

Crew 6 Dragon reentry plasma trail photo credit: NASA/Joel Kowsky

Episode 1511: Looking Outside the Bubble – A Conversation With Nathan Price

How many people outside the space community know about the Artemis Moon to Mars program? What do people who don’t follow spaceflight think of the current program? If given a chance, would YOU go to the Moon or Mars? Our guest, Nathan Price, is attempting to explore these questions with people who don’t typically follow the space program all that closely.

Countdown to the Moon aims to have a daily conversation with a single person about space exploration and their attitudes toward space. The purpose is to understand how the public perceives space exploration and make an electronic time capsule on how people in our time may perceive the future. After participating in the interview process, Talking Space’s Gene Milkulka decided to discuss with Nathan what was the driving force behind the project, and what has surprised him about the conversations he has had thus far. 

Nathan Price lives in the Houston, Texas area and founded the National Space Society’s North Houston chapter. He worked in Information Technology for 25 years. Recently he took the plunge into the space field, becoming a contractor at NASA’s Johnson Space Center, and has started working towards the goal of being on console in the Mission Control Center.

If YOU wish to participate in the Countdown to the Moon project, go to the projects Web page to schedule an appointment with Nathan or reach out to him on the site formerly known as Twitter at @GadgetNate. 

Show recorded on June 22, 2023.

 

Guest: Nathan Price

Podcast Host: Gene Mikulka

Podcast Editor: Mark Ratterman

Episode 1510: Artemis III – A Different Mission?

ESA’s Aeolus earth observation satellite, launched in August 2018,  ended its primary mission on July 28, 2023.  It still had one final mission: a safe, fiery, controlled reentry into Earth’s atmosphere conducted by the European Space Agency flight controllers. Larry Herrin provides details of the importance of this maneuver.  

 

August 8, 2023 was Artemis II media day at NASA’s Kennedy Space Center. NASA Administrator Bill Nelson, Associate Administrator for Exploration Systems Development Jim Free, and the Crew of the Artemis II mission, provided an update on the upcoming lunar reconnaissance mission. Jim Free was also asked about the status of the Human Landing System and how its progress may impact the Artemis III lunar landing attempt. Gene Mikulka reports. The link to the press conference on the NASA YouTube page can be found here.  

 

In a separate press telecon on August 7, Boeing Space and NASA gave updates on the progress of the Starliner capsule that will be used to transport crew to the international space station. Boeing’s Mark Nappi indicated that the capsule will be ready for the long-delayed Crewed Test Flight (CST) in March of 2024, pending the completion of remediation steps for the P-13 tape, which was found to be flammable and a required modification to the main reentry parachutes being made by partner company Airborne Systems. Click here to hear the entire press conference

 

So you’re a farmer seeking computer programs to help with drought or looking to track storms that might impact your crops? Perhaps you’re a researcher looking for modeling software or trying to figure out how to predict lightning strikes. As Mark Ratterman reports,  NASA has an app for that! There are about more than 1,000 free programs and algorithms free for the taking at software.nasa.gov. 

 

We provide an update on the SpaceX Boca Chica lawsuit and other developments that we’ve been following: CNBC’s Lora Kolodny reports that the company still has yet to apply for an Industrial Wastewater Permit but, according to the report, still went ahead with a full pressure test of the flame deflector for the Starship launch pad (and used it for the Booster 9 static test) despite not having the required permit for such a discharge. The team discusses these developments and will continue to watch and report. UPDATE: According to PayloadSpace.com on Tuesday, August 15, 2023, SpaceX submitted its long-awaited Mishap Investigation Report to the FAA for review.

 

So whatever became of the American flag planted on the Moon by Apollo 11? Larry Herrin discusses a PhysOrg article about the history of the last-minute scramble to include it in the mission, the fate of the artifact and what might be its current state. 

 

And speaking of the Moon, once the astronauts of NASA’s Artemis program arrive on the lunar surface, they’ll need power systems for essential systems, transportation, and conducting experiments. Mark Ratterman explores two companies – Blue Origin and Zeno Power Systems – and describes their proposals to deliver energy to lunar explorers.  Here is the Zeno Power Systems press release. 

 

Show recorded on 08-13-2023.

 

Host this week: Larry Herrin

Panel Members: Mark Ratterman & Gene Mikulka (Sawyer Rosenstein and Dr. Kat Robison will return)

Podcast Editor: Larry Herrin

Transition Music Credit: Pixabay - StudioKolomna

Episode 1509: Starship Launch Delays – a Triple Whammy?

SpaceX’s effort to launch its second integrated test of Starship is likely facing a triple whammy of delays, including a new one that should really be of no surprise to the company. It certainly is no surprise to Eric Roesch, who joins us on this episode to discuss the latest developments in the saga.

First, there’s the well-known environmental lawsuit brought by a consortium of environmental and tribal groups against the FAA and SpaceX. This case showed a little movement on July 25, 2023, and all the details on what did transpire in court filings on that date can be found here. 

Turns out that the latest filing in the case (as of this writing) would extend the deadline for proposing a briefing schedule as to summary judgment within 14 days of the Court’s resolution of Plaintiffs’ motion challenging the Administrative Record, if any is filed. And that resolution could come as late as December 2023 or January of 2024, or maybe even later. And all of this time may be used up just to get to the point where all sides agree on what the tools look like that they’re going to use to prosecute the case.

Second, the FAA just reminded everyone on July 26th that SpaceX has not yet submitted a Mishap Investigation Report for its review. This report would outline what SpaceX needs to do to demonstrate to FAA that Starship is safe enough for another launch attempt.

And the third element of the triple whammy? The new water deluge system freshly installed and tested beneath the Orbital Launch Mount (OLM) has no Industrial Wastewater Permit to go with it. Eric gives us a full rundown of all the wonky stuff, as well as the inside scoop as to how long a delay this could cause (spoiler alert: it’s a long time!). And not only has SpaceX not applied for the permit yet, but according to Eric, SpaceX knew they had to do it way back when they wrote the latest Programmatic Environmental Assessment (PEA) that governs the whole environmental shooting match. Is there something that SpaceX knows that we don’t, which will let them circumvent the Clean Water Act? How will SpaceX pull this off?

 Please be sure to let us know your thoughts on the topics we discuss. You can always reach us at mailbag@TalkingSpaceOnline.com .

 

Show recorded 07-27-2023.

 

Host: Larry Herrin

Panelist(s): Larry Herrin (Sawyer Rosenstein, Gene Mikulka, Mark Ratterman and Dr. Kat Robison will return)

Podcast Editor: Larry Herrin

Episode 1508: Starship, ULA & STEM news

The environmental lawsuit brought by a consortium of environmental and tribal groups against the FAA and SpaceX has shown no visible movement since July 5, 2023, but we have all the details on what did transpire on that date. Turns out that since our recording date, another filing in the case would extend the deadline for proposing a briefing schedule as to summary judgment within 14 days of the Court’s resolution of Plaintiffs’ motion challenging the Administrative Record, if any is filed. And that resolution could come in the timeframe of December 2023 or January of 2024, or maybe even later. More on this to come next time!

Believe it or not, there are a few other stories in the News Roundup:

• NASA selects Axiom Space and Collins Aerospace to further advance the capabilities of their respective spacesuits by pulling a switcheroo on them.
• A new robotic, scientific instrument package with a lovely new acronym – DIMPLE –  has been selected for Artemis through NASA’s Commercial Lunar Payload Services (CLPS) to study volcanic terrain on the Moon.
• The asteroid sample-return mission known as OSIRIS Rex is making a number of course-correction burns this month to set it up for a precision landing in the Great Salt Lake Desert on September 24, 2023.

Next, the United Launch Alliance (ULA) says despite recent anomalies involving their Centaur V upper stage and the BE-4 engines built by Blue Origin, Vulcan should still fly this year, although behind schedule. We respectfully disagree.

Then, we bring you a discussion on a subject near and dear to everyone’s heart here on the Talking Space team: STEM education programs and their importance in securing the future competitiveness of the USA, the future of our children and the well-being of the planet. FYI, STEM represents science, technology, engineering and math. NASA has recently awarded millions in STEM research grants to schools all over the country. All this may sound corny, but you can’t argue with how it’s changed lives. Also, here’s a STEM center success story that is very personal to Sawyer.

Finally, a reminder from whence we came: This past week was the 54th anniversary of the Apollo 11 Moon mission, which carried Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin to the lunar surface for the first-ever manned lunar landing on July 20, 1969. Meanwhile, Michael Collins piloted the Command Module, which then took all three astronauts back home.

Please be sure to let us know your thoughts on the topics we discuss. You can always reach us at mailbag@TalkingSpaceOnline.com .

 

Show recorded 07-16-2023.

 

Host: Sawyer Rosenstein

Panelist(s): Mark Ratterman and Larry Herrin (Gene Mikulka and Dr. Kat Robison will return)

Podcast Editor: Larry Herrin

Transition Music Credit: Pixabay - StudioKolomna

Episode 1507: A Secret Mission and … OceanGate’s Titan?

You may ask, “Why are we talking about the OceanGate Expeditions’ Titan submersible tragedy in a podcast dedicated to space-related stuff?” The commonality with undersea exploration is the lack of Human Commercial Spaceflight Safety Regulations. Do we need more regulation? The team muses about this issue in this episode of Talking Space.

But first, the News Roundup: 

• Mark manages to both provide us interesting info as well as to humanize the launch he witnessed of a classified military payload -- the mission designated NROL-68. 
• A classified military orbital mission notwithstanding, there’s still lots of news we CAN provide details about in this episode, including the ribbon-cutting ceremony for NASA’s Earth Resource Information Center in Washington, D.C.
•  The final flight of the Ariane V, VA261, was postponed during rollout. After an additional weather delay on July 4, the final launch of the Ariane 5 rocket took place on Wednesday, July 5. 
• Ecuador and India become the 26th and 27th signatories of the Artemis Accords.
• The Mars Sample Return mission’s cost has skyrocketed, according to a report in Ars Technica. Will it affect the budgets or existence of other planetary research missions? Gene has some insights.
• The Deep Space Food Challenge, an international competition sponsored by NASA to innovate food production for deep space missions, is heading into its final phase. Mark has details.

Please be sure to let us know your thoughts on the topics we discuss. You can always reach us at mailbag@TalkingSpaceOnline.com .

 

Show recorded 06-25-2023.

 

Host: Sawyer Rosenstein

Panelist(s): Gene Mikulka, Mark Ratterman and Larry Herrin (Dr. Kat Robison will return)

Podcast Editor: Mark Ratterman

NROL-68 Mission Patch photo credit: NRO, Public domain, via Wikimedia Commons

Delta IV Heavy launch photo credit: Cape Canaveral Space Force Station, Fla., (June 22, 2023) A ULA Delta IV Heavy rocket carrying the NROL-68 mission for the National Reconnaissance Office lifts off from Space Launch Complex-37 at 5:18 a.m. EDT on June 22. Photos by United Launch Alliance

 

Delta IV Heavy opening a portal to the heavens Photo Credit: Lavie Ohana @Lavie154 @WeAreSpaceScout